🎙️ Episode 1: From Rental Arbitrage to a Multi-Million Dollar Vacation Rental Empire with Josh Hatter

📢 Guest: Josh Hatter, Founder & CEO of Curated Vacation Properties (CVP)
🗓 Release Date: March 20, 2025
🎙 Where to Listen: Right here, on Podbean, and coming soon to Apple Podcasts & Spotify

What We Discuss:

  • From rental arbitrage to property ownership – how Josh built one of the fastest-growing vacation rental companies in the U.S.

  • Scaling a short-term rental business – lessons from landing on the Inc. 5000 list (2023 & 2024).

  • The evolving expectations of vacation rental guests – what they really want in 2025.

  • Balancing technology & hospitality – how to personalize guest experiences without losing the human touch.

  • Direct bookings vs. OTAs – how to increase direct reservations while working within OTA guidelines.

  • The future of luxury vacation rentals – emerging trends & investment opportunities.

Key Takeaway: To stay ahead in 2025, vacation rental owners and managers must prioritize guest experience, leverage direct booking strategies, and build a scalable, guest-centric business model.

  • file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:00:00:09 - 00:00:28:05

    Jamie Mattingly

    Welcome to the in-crowd, where we dive into the latest strategy shaping the travel and tourism industry. I'm your host,

    Jenny Mattingly, and today we're talking about how traveler expectations are shifting and what that means for vacation

    rentals. Looking to stay ahead in 2025. Joining me today is Josh Hatter, founder and CEO of CVP Curated Vacation

    Properties. They specialize in managing high end vacation rentals across the southeast, creating seamless luxury guest

    experiences while optimizing revenue for property owners.

    00:00:28:07 - 00:00:39:06

    Jamie Mattingly

    We're going to dive in today and see what today's travelers are looking for, and how vacation rentals can differentiate

    themselves, and how direct booking strategies can drive long term success. Josh, welcome to the show.

    00:00:39:08 - 00:00:41:16

    Josh Hatter

    Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

    00:00:41:18 - 00:00:57:05

    Jamie Mattingly

    I am so honored to be talking with you today. I came across your profile on LinkedIn. You've got some really great

    content on there. I recommend anyone listening to go check out your profile. Can you tell me a little bit about CVP and

    the other, businesses that you're into?

    00:00:57:07 - 00:01:24:04

    Josh Hatter

    Sure. Yeah, it's been a it's been an interesting, windy road. As entrepreneurship often is. But CVP, I actually originally

    started, many years pre-COVID. 20, 2016 is when I founded it. I started doing rental arbitrage, like a lot of people, do,

    especially if you don't have capital. That's how people get started. And so I started CDP originally as a rental arbitrage

    business.

    00:01:24:08 - 00:01:43:23

    Josh Hatter

    I was never comfortable doing it. You know, the fear of having that rent payment every month and, you know, having to

    to make your margin on that. Accompanied by the fact that you don't get the equity appreciation, nor do you get the,

    depreciation on your taxes. So it's, you know, it's really, like, the worst of every world.

    00:01:44:09 - 00:02:06:05

    Josh Hatter

    Thank God I wasn't doing that going into Covid. A lot of people that were really got hammered. But I got really lucky. I

    signed to, two year leases on two condo, two two bedroom condos, in Charleston, in downtown Charleston. And within

    like, three months, they got an offer, unsolicited offer on the building. So I actually wound up getting bought out of

    those leases.

    00:02:07:00 - 00:02:26:13

    Josh Hatter

    And so they wound up writing me a check for 50 grand, just to go away, and, and that was that closing immediately

    after closing the new owner called me and said, hey, can you meet my girlfriend Tammy? We have a problem. This is in

    May, around Memorial Day that it closed. And then, I met them and they said, hey, our furniture is not getting here until

    after Labor Day.

    00:02:26:13 - 00:02:45:20

    Josh Hatter

    Can you just run it through peak season? And so, you know, combined with being able to make that margin during peak

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    season and plus selling the furniture was able to seed CBP with about $75,000 just from those original arbitrage

    contracts. I've always been an investor myself as well to I bought my first house when I was 24.

    00:02:46:00 - 00:03:03:23

    Josh Hatter

    Definitely should not have qualified for that. That was pre 2008. Armageddon. So that was that was a fun time too. But,

    I like to, to use the phrase, I play real life monopoly. And so I've been kind of trading up, as an investor. Outside of

    CVP, I've actually gotten into actual debt and breakfast.

    00:03:03:23 - 00:03:24:14

    Josh Hatter

    So we have two of those in downtown Charleston, the Ashley and the Nicholas. We put about $900,000 in a huge

    renovation in the Ashley and 1.15 million into the Nicholas. The Nicholas was our second one. It just opened January

    10th of last year. So it's been open about a year now. We're actually under contract on our third one called The Present

    and Savannah, Georgia.

    00:03:24:14 - 00:03:44:21

    Josh Hatter

    So that's our first one. Savannah. But that's under Tru by collection. Tru by is French for lucky find. We like to, we like

    to say that it's kind of the, nice niche in between. Full blown, you know, full service hotel, which obviously comes with

    its own cost set. And Airbnb. So we're kind of somewhere in the middle there.

    00:03:45:09 - 00:04:05:04

    Josh Hatter

    You know, having somebody on site, the two in Charleston, we actually do breakfast. We have a grab and go breakfast

    as well to, we have a vendor that comes by and fills those every morning. So, try to service, you know, the provide the

    hotel amenities at bed and breakfast prices. CBP itself has just exploded.

    00:04:05:05 - 00:04:29:05

    Josh Hatter

    It's been, you know, it's probably the funnest thing that I'm working on. I didn't even quit corporate America until

    December 19th of 2021. So just over three years ago. When I quit corporate America, I was in it for almost 20 years in

    sales. We had 21 listings under management. Once we closed, the president and Savannah will be in, like, the one 40s,

    like, probably 143.

    00:04:29:20 - 00:04:53:19

    Josh Hatter

    And so last year, we did a $10.1 million in bookings, service, over 25,000 guests, and three states. And so, it's been been

    a bit of a journey. We've grown each of the last six years, on average, 100%. So year before in 23, we actually had 5.4

    million. And this year, we did Paul's sales last year very intentionally to kind of fix some things operationally.

    00:04:53:19 - 00:05:04:03

    Josh Hatter

    But, this year we're already on track for 15 million. So the stretch goal is to 20. So despite pausing sales, we're going to

    try to double again. We'll see if we can do it.

    00:05:04:05 - 00:05:19:16

    Jamie Mattingly

    That's that's so incredible. Well congratulations. First off on such an amazing journey. I did read and I can see them

    behind you. In 2022 2024, CDP was named one of the fastest growing companies in America.

    00:05:19:18 - 00:05:39:12

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Last year we were at number three, 65 out of 5000, which I think is pretty cool. So that's, you know,

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    Inc 500 as well. Kind of like the, the exclusive subset of that. But but yeah, we applied again this year as well to for

    2024 and expect to make it. So it's it's a hard thing to make once.

    00:05:39:18 - 00:05:57:08

    Josh Hatter

    One of the things that I like about Inc 5000 is you actually have to provide tax returns. You know, so it's not like you

    could fill out a form and lie about it. You've got to sign the the tax return form and also get your accountant or CPA to

    verify it as well too. So, I like that validity of it.

    00:05:57:16 - 00:06:14:04

    Josh Hatter

    And it's kind of cool to look at other industries. Yeah, that's a traditionally an industry where people grow exponentially.

    So it's always fun to kind of look at some of the other, backgrounds and journeys of some of the other businesses there.

    But, yeah, we're we're really proud of that and have applied again for 2024 as well.

    00:06:14:06 - 00:06:27:20

    Jamie Mattingly

    That's awesome. Especially now when you took that huge break to focus on the internal. But I guess you know, that

    does make sense because you're only going to make things get better after that. And I was curious actually, in that list, is

    there a lot of hospitality brands in there?

    00:06:27:22 - 00:06:47:01

    Josh Hatter

    Not really. Yeah. Not really. It's there's a lot like, obviously tech grows really quickly. The other thing and they don't

    parse this out, I would be curious to see how many have raised capital versus how many are self-funded. You know, one

    of the quickest ways to accelerate growth is to take on outside capital. So, that's not really something that they do.

    00:06:47:01 - 00:07:07:09

    Josh Hatter

    You kind of have to dig in a little bit to see, but, but yeah, if you look at the top like ten, you know, even more than, like

    20, 50 like it, most of them are tech companies. Which you expect, I mean, obviously, if you're if you're scaling a tech

    company, if you don't hit critical mass sooner than later than you're, you're you're going to go out of business pretty

    quickly.

    00:07:07:11 - 00:07:21:21

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah. No, that's incredible. Congratulations. So thank you. And you guys are doing something right. What would you

    say drives your team's approach to hospitality? Like what is your core philosophy behind how you create guest

    experiences?

    00:07:21:23 - 00:07:47:02

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah. We've actually we've done a lot on this, over the last even six months. But, even as we speak, we're shifting to

    one of our full time employees into launching a specific concierge program. And so one of the things I'm a huge data

    nerd, we use EOS or the entrepreneurial operating system. And so we've we self implemented probably 4 or 5 years ago,

    with EOS.

    00:07:47:04 - 00:08:12:22

    Josh Hatter

    And so over time, you have this huge treasure trove of data and you can really make decisions based on that. Right. So

    it's easy to get emotional and entrepreneurship. There's a lot of highs and lows. But being able to use real data to make

    smart decisions definitely, decreases the risk of failure at least a little bit. So, we actually so we we looked at like, okay,

    well, what percentage of reservations are above x dollar amount?

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:08:13:07 - 00:08:33:00

    Josh Hatter

    And then what would it take to service those and then define different levels of a concierge program? We actually had

    everybody recently read the book unreasonable, Unreasonable hospitality by woke up with our, he had a 11 Madison

    park up in New York. Which, you know, was a michelin star restaurant restaurant for a while.

    00:08:33:00 - 00:08:55:13

    Josh Hatter

    So a lot of the things in that it's interesting, you know, how, how he got people to buy in. And I think that's a big piece

    of it is just the culture. And it's really, like, easy things that would be like, even stupid are not even noticeable to, to a lot

    of people. You know, one of the small changes we made recently, if anybody's ever been to a chick fil A, what do you

    think that they say?

    00:08:55:13 - 00:09:12:22

    Josh Hatter

    My pleasure. My wife and I, I was pregnant with our first, kid, and we went on our baby move. Thanks. We went on our

    babymoon outside of Miami here recently, and no one ever says thank you, or says you're welcome. Right. So you say

    thank you. No one ever says you're welcome. It's always my pleasure.

    00:09:12:22 - 00:09:32:06

    Josh Hatter

    And after a couple days of it, I'm like, you know, if you think about it, telling somebody you're welcome is really almost

    kind of rude, right? It's like, oh, yes, I can be bothered to help you. Yeah. You're welcome that I did this right. So this is

    like little things like that. And so that's, you know, adopt that as the standard going forward in all of our

    communications.

    00:09:32:06 - 00:09:52:04

    Josh Hatter

    And I mean, you know, I like to make things fun. I mean, you really have to get people to buy in, particularly, you

    know, guests can be difficult. If you if you service 25,000 people, you're going to get a couple difficult ones in there

    ever. Yeah. So it's, it's. Yeah, it's. I'm a parade Parado principle guy.

    00:09:52:04 - 00:10:11:14

    Josh Hatter

    You're going to get some issues from some percentage of those, for some percentage of those that. But yeah, it's it's

    really maintaining the setting the standard and then maintaining it. So, like, Tomlin is, hey, I'm a big football dork, too.

    He's the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. And he has a saying the standard is the standard.

    00:10:12:00 - 00:10:27:06

    Josh Hatter

    And that sounds a little like colloquial, but I think there's a lot of truth in that. Right? Like, and it's one of those things

    where, you know, initially when we were, implementing certain things, he kind of had that pushback and, oh, this is

    going to take me this much extra time, or it's going to cost this much money.

    00:10:27:08 - 00:10:49:04

    Josh Hatter

    And being able to tell people the standard is the standard, like this. This is what we're doing. So you can get on board or

    not. It also weeds people out from a culture perspective. I waited way too long to hire. I did, my wife will tell you I did a

    lot of really, really crazy jobs for a long time.

    00:10:49:23 - 00:11:18:08

    Josh Hatter

    And so once I finally hired, then it's a matter of you're almost trying to convince people that it's a stable company and a

    good job initially. I'm really proud of this. We actually, we just. April 1st of 22, set up people as W-2 employees. But a

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    year ago, we set up for one k 14 days of PTO, and then this year we set up medical, dental, vision, and life and ADHD

    insurance.

    00:11:18:08 - 00:11:38:11

    Josh Hatter

    So I like to joke that, Pinocchio's becoming a real boy in terms of KVP. And we rolled out an incentive plan too. So as

    part of iOS, you're measuring things across departments, which then makes it really easy to say that down to the

    employee level. Here's what your goals are for the quarter. And then be able to incentivize that behavior.

    00:11:38:20 - 00:12:06:08

    Josh Hatter

    People and organizations behave the way that they're incentivized to behave. And so I think we've really kind of cracked

    that code. It's it was actually with all that kind of pushback like, oh, that's this is these standards are crazy. It was really

    interesting to see how quickly the behavior shifted. And I'm talking like two weeks. And the standards were, like, pretty,

    you know, and I it made me like, go back and rethink, like, maybe these were enough of a stretch because people just

    molded so quickly.

    00:12:06:21 - 00:12:30:20

    Josh Hatter

    And I think, like having that little bit of upside in their compensation quarterly, obviously helps. But it almost like game

    of size. Yeah. Your day to day, if that makes sense. Yeah. We literally we track this stuff every week, you know, so you

    I mean there's a scorecard day, you know how everybody's doing. Not just, you know, so there's no surprise of, like, oh,

    I wonder if I'm meeting my goals this quarter.

    00:12:30:21 - 00:12:59:20

    Josh Hatter

    Am I going to get my bonus or not? It takes a while to get there. We've got, just another little mini hiring blitz. We've

    got a couple more positions to fill, but we've got 13 W-2 employees, six virtual assistants in two countries and a handful

    of 1099 full time contractors as well. So it's, you know, you've got two different, different people who come from

    different walks of life, and it's a matter of trying to get everybody on the same page and all motivate them toward a

    common vision and goal.

    00:12:59:20 - 00:13:05:08

    Josh Hatter

    And that's really that's really been a lot of fun for me over the last year, specifically.

    00:13:05:10 - 00:13:26:19

    Jamie Mattingly

    That is that is so cool. It sounds like your company is a great company to work for. I think the gamification and little

    incentives like that are absolutely necessary to keep your team involved. Like, I love this industry, I'm so passionate

    about it, but you can still get bored and something that you like if it's not being presented or, you know, done in the right

    way.

    00:13:26:19 - 00:13:35:09

    Jamie Mattingly

    So clearly you figured out a formula that has motivated your team to help them bring you to the success that you've

    achieved. So cool. So congratulations again.

    00:13:35:11 - 00:13:58:09

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah. And it's it really is a huge team effort. Right. It's it's trying to figure out like as a CEO it's not just having I like to

    say it's the intersection of three things. What are you really really good at. What are you what do you love to do. And

    then what does the company need. Right. And and just because somebody is in the wrong seat doesn't mean that they're

    not a good employee.

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:13:58:09 - 00:14:17:22

    Josh Hatter

    They might fit perfectly with the culture. It's on me as the CEO to try to shift them to where their talents best serve the

    company and also get the most out of their own career as well, too. So that's it's the piece that I really like have grown. I

    if you asked me this a couple years ago, I don't think I would have said this would have been the case.

    00:14:17:22 - 00:14:37:23

    Josh Hatter

    But so piece I really love the most is like looking at like, human, you know, and humans are inherently unpredictable

    and just being able to to look at like, what, are they really good at? It just because I say something doesn't mean they

    believe it either. And so there's this journey of like getting to where like, yeah, this I really love doing this and I am

    really good at it.

    00:14:38:00 - 00:14:58:07

    Josh Hatter

    Right. And so there's these kind of steps along the way, of helping somebody kind of realize that and then really

    plugging them into a position that's well suited to their needs. I think most small businesses don't have that luxury nor

    the time to look at it. But I really focus on working on the business and not in the business at this phase.

    00:14:58:20 - 00:15:03:05

    Josh Hatter

    And that's really helped continue our exponential growth.

    00:15:03:07 - 00:15:23:00

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah. That is so important to work on the business, not in the business. And I do think that's the trap that a lot of small

    business owners get into. To anyone listening, this is exactly why you should follow Josh on LinkedIn and listen to that.

    He is sharing because it sounds like you've cracked the code. And you know, this can be one of the hardest parts of

    being a business owner.

    00:15:23:00 - 00:15:37:18

    Jamie Mattingly

    You know, we're all we love to get into business because we're passionate about what we do, and then we realize we

    have to run a team or build out the operations. And it doesn't become fun anymore. But it still can be if we do it right. So

    that's good to know. There is, you know, a shining light on the other side of that hill.

    00:15:38:01 - 00:15:38:23

    Josh Hatter

    Totally.

    00:15:39:00 - 00:15:59:02

    Jamie Mattingly

    So getting in, getting into how guest expectations have changed since you started this company, even since 2016, how

    have guest demands or expectations changed in the vacation rental space? What is it that you see your company doing

    different for guests that you weren't? Maybe doing in 2016 or 17?

    00:15:59:04 - 00:16:26:23

    Josh Hatter

    Oh geez. Literally everything from a guest service perspective. I mean, it's what's interesting. This asset class has always

    been around, right? Like in the mountains and on the beaches. I mean, Furbo was around for ever. HomeAway was

    around for decades. Right? But the proliferation of Airbnb, I first started this in 2012 on the, actually like renting out a

    one bedroom condo that I had in downtown Charleston, and I would go crash on friends couches.

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:16:27:00 - 00:17:00:00

    Josh Hatter

    That was long before people knew what Airbnb was. Right now it's $100 billion company. And so, you know, that from

    from 2012 to today, it really it's the asset class has totally matured. You know, obviously with the massive speed bump

    and, you know, on that journey in 2020 with, the biggest hospitality recession in the history of mankind, but you know,

    back then, I mean, anybody could have listed something on, Airbnb and made money, right?

    00:17:00:00 - 00:17:26:01

    Josh Hatter

    So you could have this suburban place that, didn't necessarily wasn't up to standard. And you could probably still make

    money and all those people, those kind of, the tangential investors that have had really they kind of got lucky to be early

    on it. Anybody that hasn't molded to, to, adopting certain just basic hospitality standards has been weeded out of this

    asset class, in my opinion.

    00:17:26:14 - 00:17:49:21

    Josh Hatter

    You know, the type of owner that we work with now is very different than even four years ago. We have the same

    number of clients. One of my partners, I brought in two partners and a CVP in the last, 18 months. And, the guy that

    handles sales and revenue management likes to say we have the same a number of clients, if not less, than we did a year

    or two ago, just because we know exactly who we want to work with.

    00:17:49:21 - 00:18:13:11

    Josh Hatter

    And it's more along the institutional investor. Right. So the person that knows not just the financials, but that you have

    to invest in the property, I think a lot of people weren't making that reinvestment, much less maintaining any kind of

    standard. And so it's just you can't survive much less at scale. It's just I think it's impossible, to do this at scale without

    maintaining certain standards.

    00:18:13:21 - 00:18:31:21

    Josh Hatter

    So, yeah, I think that have become, it's interesting seeing the adoption of Airbnb, right? Because initially it's like, you

    know, oh, I'll give this a shot and, and almost ten years ago, I would say I don't at least 50 to said this. The brilliance of

    Airbnb, 50 to 70% of the people would say, hey, this is my first time using it.

    00:18:31:23 - 00:18:56:19

    Josh Hatter

    And so they're relying on hosts to build their brand and to come back, you know, as a returning user and stay in another

    property. And they were very good. Airbnb was very good about, making us proud of that and introducing them to the

    steps in the journey and those types of things. And that guest has now matured over the course of the last ten years, 15

    years, and they expect different things.

    00:18:56:21 - 00:19:14:10

    Josh Hatter

    You know, if they're not going to stay in a hotel, they still want the things that come with a hotel they wanted at an

    Airbnb price. So it's, it's it's just it's been interesting watching kind of the evolution of the asset class. I like to say short

    term rentals changed my life. My background's awful. My father died in prison.

    00:19:14:10 - 00:19:30:07

    Josh Hatter

    You know, all types of abuse, those types of things. And it really provided an avenue for me, to, to kind of create a

    blueprint for other people to follow. And I take that really seriously as well to trying to pay it forward wherever I can.

    00:19:30:09 - 00:19:47:23

    Jamie Mattingly

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    Beautiful. And especially coming from such a difficult background, it seems like that maybe helped motivate you to be

    so successful. And I mean, you come across as a very positive person, and I always respect that so much in people that

    have had that difficult background. So kudos to you.

    00:19:48:00 - 00:19:49:08

    Josh Hatter

    Thank you.

    00:19:49:10 - 00:20:16:20

    Jamie Mattingly

    So as you know, as we were just kind of touching on it, travelers are expecting a lot these days. We have endless

    choices. So with the data that we now can collect, personalization can be a huge differentiator in between whether

    they're going to choose Airbnb, choose KVP, choose a hotel. So what role does guest customization play in creating

    memorable stays for CDP is huge.

    00:20:17:11 - 00:20:40:06

    Josh Hatter

    I mean, I would say for and we track distribution as well, we roll it out to Marriott Homes and Villas here in the last,

    couple of months. We roll it out, for the, the bed and breakfast properties rolled out to Booking.com. And, you know,

    Expedia. And so those types of things, it's interesting because it's a different journey at the customer journey.

    00:20:40:06 - 00:21:03:18

    Josh Hatter

    Right? So if you want to stay in Charleston out a bed and breakfast, you'll Google that as opposed to going on the OTA

    platform and searching, you know, if you're doing that, you're just searching for the city. But as a result, direct direct

    bookings are much higher for us now than they were even last year. We're about 21% direct bookings across the

    portfolio, and the bed and breakfast are actually 30%.

    00:21:03:18 - 00:21:32:14

    Josh Hatter

    And the whole point, you know, to I've got somewhere where this the whole point is to own that journey. Right. If you

    own that data, you can create a returning customer. And that matters because most people in this industry, their

    customer lifetime value is one day. And so, you know, the whole the whole point of all of this hospitality, the guest

    experience is to try to increase that customer lifetime value, to have returning users you want.

    00:21:32:22 - 00:21:51:08

    Josh Hatter

    And some markets are like this is more standard. Oh, we take the same vacation during the same week every single

    year. About the same property. So, you know, some people have that kind of built in, but it really kind of forces you to

    look at. Am I making this experience the best possible for the guests?

    00:21:51:08 - 00:22:11:15

    Josh Hatter

    Is it frictionless? What types of things are they asking for? So we're always adding new partners, you know, ordering

    groceries ahead. Beach equipment, baby equipment, you know, all those types of things. Serving up vendors. If you

    want to do a fishing trotter or a private chef, if those are things that we didn't really think about five years ago.

    00:22:12:02 - 00:22:28:03

    Josh Hatter

    Where now it's it's a matter of if every single time a guest has a unique question, we want to be able to lean into that and

    provide an answer for it. So yeah, that's part of our partnership program and concierge program that we're building out

    now as well too. And I don't think that will ever be done.

    00:22:28:04 - 00:22:37:15

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    Josh Hatter

    And, you know, the guest experience can always be better. And we're always looking to get people to come back. And

    every time, every time they visit the city.

    00:22:37:17 - 00:22:56:16

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah, I love that. The the grocery options, local partnerships, stuff like that. When I'm choosing where to stay, it's that's

    more what I'm looking at. And I've even noticed that change in myself over the last five years. I never expected that

    because I didn't even know that I could. You know, now it's like, I definitely expect it.

    00:22:56:16 - 00:23:05:21

    Jamie Mattingly

    Like, where is that at? Right. Oh, so we have to in this industry stay ahead of these guest expectations. And it sounds

    like TVP does a great job doing that.

    00:23:05:23 - 00:23:14:11

    Josh Hatter

    Do you think they're a lot better at it now than we were six months ago even. But but yeah, it's it's very top of mind for

    us. What were you gonna ask me? Sorry.

    00:23:14:12 - 00:23:27:03

    Jamie Mattingly

    I was going to ask if there is a most requested, you know, amenity or something that you've noticed in your guests,

    maybe in the region that they all really want.

    00:23:27:05 - 00:23:48:06

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah. It's. So it's a couple things we added, this, this wellness campus called the Wonder in Charleston. And there's only

    one of them here. At least in downtown. There's one in North Charleston, actually, as well, too. But, we added them as a

    partner. And so that's probably the number one question. That's a separate amenity CVP pays for that.

    00:23:48:15 - 00:24:24:11

    Josh Hatter

    Which is different than the other partnerships that the wonder has. I try to look at things that are mutually beneficial to

    both business owners. What we're doing partnerships. And I love supporting local businesses. I, you know, it wasn't that

    long ago that I was struggling to try to make this work, right. And so we approached that partnership a different way and

    said, how do we incentivize this where, you know, you make X number of dollars on, like, food and Bev, when

    somebody comes and sits at your poolside cabana, how do we incentivize increasing that number while decreasing the

    fee that we pay you?

    00:24:24:11 - 00:24:47:10

    Josh Hatter

    Right. So it's an inverse relationship. And during peak season, we can effectively work it down to where we don't pay

    them anything in the summer. Yet 60 to 80% of our guests are enjoying that amenity. And so it's a not just a unique

    amenity that you might have in a normal, bigger hotel. But also our relationship with them is different than they have

    with other partners.

    00:24:47:19 - 00:25:24:13

    Josh Hatter

    And then, you know, I mentioned the beach equipment and baby equipment that was actually my first vendor many

    years ago. So, I love chatting with the the lady that owns the company, the two companies. She actually started the

    grocery business too, and sold it, ironically, but, but yeah. So she's been doing this for a really long time, and, it's really

    cool when you can plug into somebody and, you know, see them experience success and participate in that journey

    somewhat somewhere and somehow along the way, I, I just, I really I know the people that helped me out kind of over

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    the years.

    00:25:24:13 - 00:25:28:21

    Josh Hatter

    And it's nice to be in that position now to do those things.

    00:25:28:23 - 00:25:50:19

    Jamie Mattingly

    That's great. And like you said, this is a mutually beneficial relationship for both of you, right? Offer something to your

    guests that make them feel like a VIP. It's low dollar to you. It's high value to them. I mean, I love that and I love that

    it's not just about you making more money, it is about the partnerships that you're creating, the experiences that you're

    providing for your guests.

    00:25:50:19 - 00:25:51:08

    Jamie Mattingly

    That's lovely.

    00:25:51:08 - 00:26:13:23

    Josh Hatter

    Totally. Actually, I'll pull that thread a little bit more to, you know, some of the these folks will offer us like referral

    fees. And, you know, I just there's they're not the volumes not enough. Like it's going to massively impact our

    profitability. And so and Paul, the lady I mentioned as like, argued with me about this for years.

    00:26:13:23 - 00:26:37:13

    Josh Hatter

    It's like once a year she'll give me a check for, you know, 100 bucks or something. And she wouldn't let me refuse it.

    And she's like, just use it towards your company party that you do every year, you know? But generally, I don't accept

    the referral fees either. I would rather say, you know, okay, you give us a ten, 15, 20% discount on the service and we

    pass that on to the guests, right.

    00:26:37:13 - 00:26:51:18

    Josh Hatter

    That increases the the value for the customer. So, yeah, it's it's not just a matter of having access to the partners. It's the

    structure, the structure of those partnerships that really increases and improves the guest experience.

    00:26:51:20 - 00:27:13:15

    Jamie Mattingly

    Absolutely. Yeah. That's great. So as you know, because you're I don't know if I would say battling this. I'd love to hear

    your thoughts on this. But despite the cost savings of direct bookings, a lot of the time, many travelers still default to

    OTAs like Vrbo and Airbnb. Why do you think that that is the case?

    00:27:13:17 - 00:27:36:02

    Josh Hatter

    I think that's shifting. I mean, even in the last 1 or 2 years I've noticed a shift, just looking at like, let's say two years, I

    would say two years ago if you brought, hey, you can book with us direct. Let's say we took over a property, to manage

    and, you know, typically when that happens, the previous manager will cancel everything.

    00:27:36:04 - 00:27:58:00

    Josh Hatter

    And a lot of times now, people are just rebooking directly because they can save that service fee, as opposed to

    rebooking through the OTA. But you didn't really necessarily see that a few years ago. And I think there's more as a

    result of the maturity in the asset class and, standards being so much better than they were, you know, three, five, ten

    years ago.

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:27:58:08 - 00:28:27:24

    Josh Hatter

    People are more willing to kind of take that risk, if you will. Especially as we've gotten some scale. I mean, you know,

    people may have stayed in another property before as well, too. So, obviously all those things kind of help. But yeah, I

    think it's the overall standard of this asset class, you know, short term rentals just being so much more, stringent, strict

    that it was ten years ago, has really helped people, kind of, kind of, accept that a little bit more.

    00:28:28:14 - 00:28:37:11

    Josh Hatter

    And then especially when they see, obviously the financial savings of not going through an OTA, that's a that's a good

    clincher if they're already on the fence about it.

    00:28:38:11 - 00:29:09:01

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah. I'm like, you referred to yourself as a data nerd earlier. I, I am too, when I am planning something, I research like

    crazy. And I do compare and compare and compare. So I did compare a direct booking on your site versus not. We get

    to that in a second. But I read that 85, almost 85% of travelers default to these platform platforms because they trust the

    refund and cancellation policies has she totally done anything proactive to combat that?

    00:29:09:03 - 00:29:36:15

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah, it's it's really it's a couple things. Like Covid was obviously rough. I mean, it was, you know, watching everything

    you built, burning the candle at both ends at night, you know, for years just evaporate overnight in a wave of hundreds,

    if not thousands of cancellations for us at the time. And the the way the OTAs have treated their relationship with guests

    and host has also changed over the years.

    00:29:37:03 - 00:29:56:23

    Josh Hatter

    And Covid, I mean, they were very I should say, Airbnb specifically was very guest friendly. You know, it didn't matter

    what your cancellation policy was. You wound up getting a full refund where, you know, Vrbo is the only other OTAs

    we were on at the time and they basically said, it's up to you to figure out we're not we're not the middleman.

    00:29:57:11 - 00:30:15:12

    Josh Hatter

    You know, you got to work it out. So a lot of times you were able to postpone that booking, you know, to a later stay,

    and, and, and be able to keep it on the books at least, if nothing else. Does it different approach. And then, you know,

    you've now being in this for a little while, you kind of see the pendulum swing back and forth.

    00:30:15:12 - 00:30:29:22

    Josh Hatter

    Right? So from there, like I think at some point Airbnb realized like, oh, we made a mistake here. We need to value our

    hosts more. That's how our platform has gotten to this size. And so you kind of saw that swing back and I would say

    now we're almost seeing it swing back the other way a little bit.

    00:30:29:22 - 00:30:51:21

    Josh Hatter

    So it's interesting just kind of over the years, it could be the exact same instance of what a guest encountered. Right.

    And depending on the year, the response from the OTA is different than it was a year ago, three years ago, five years

    ago. But yeah, I think it's they obviously have very stated cancellation policies and refund policies.

    00:30:51:21 - 00:31:11:06

    Josh Hatter

    So, you know, something like Airbnb has a list of things that they define as essential amenities. So if your air

    conditioning is not working in August, then that's immediate 50% off for that whatever night it wasn't working. And

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    guests know this stuff to guests are a lot more knowledgeable and smarter about these policies than they were in Covid.

    00:31:11:18 - 00:31:33:10

    Josh Hatter

    And so they know how they can kind of get some of those discounts. I think it's a matter of just kind of having that

    comfort and, and the relationship and, and then building the direct bookings with the guest. And a lot of it I think the

    reason these platforms work is there's still an inherent trust that people are generally good in society.

    00:31:33:12 - 00:31:58:10

    Josh Hatter

    Right. If everybody went in skeptically, then none of these platforms would work. And so, you know, if you look at it

    through that lens, if somebody trusts Airbnb and they trust that you're going to have, you know, maintain these

    standards that Airbnb has, that it's not now with the maturity of the asset class, it's not that much of a leap for someone

    to say, okay, and I can block, direct and also save this fee as well too.

    00:31:58:24 - 00:32:10:12

    Josh Hatter

    I think it's still sticky. It's not like these OTAs are going anywhere. They're huge companies. But, hosts are always

    trying to figure out how to increase their direct bookings and, the direct relationship.

    00:32:10:14 - 00:32:35:17

    Jamie Mattingly

    Oh, yeah. You know, I, I've read somewhere that, you know, the majority of website visitors for vacation rentals come

    from the OTAs. So you have a shot to, you know, to win them over. Really depends on your website. And I'm sure all

    the things that, you know, for that. But going back to that, I did compare a direct booking on your website versus a

    direct booking on Airbnb, and it was over $800 cheaper on your website booking direct.

    00:32:35:19 - 00:32:51:04

    Jamie Mattingly

    That is huge. So how do you how do CDP get the word out? How do you communicate that to your guests when you

    have such a limited window to try to, to win them over, to steal them from the OTAs?

    00:32:51:06 - 00:33:14:13

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah, it's obviously there's some sensitivity there because you don't want to violate the terms of service with the OTAs.

    Right. And sometimes it's as simple as people say, like, you know, oh, is there any other cheaper option? Right. And we

    can say, oh, you're always welcome. Welcome to Google, our company name. You know that. And then if there's people

    this has been around long enough now, right, that obviously people can follow those breadcrumbs a little bit.

    00:33:15:08 - 00:33:41:06

    Josh Hatter

    But you're right. I mean, the the interesting thing too is we also increase base rates on our website. And so when you

    remove that service fee, you know, it's depending on the OTA and a lot of different variables, it can be 10 to 30% of the

    booking. We actually generally will have higher base rates. And so our clients make more money, when people are

    booking directly as well.

    00:33:41:06 - 00:34:11:21

    Josh Hatter

    But the guest is also saving money too. So the savings isn't entirely passed on to the guest. We build in higher base rates

    as well too, which obviously clients are happy about. So yeah, it's it's a huge I mean, otherwise what's the incentive,

    right? I mean, if you go to book and it's more expensive direct than then, there's no reason for you to risk the, you know,

    the potential trust of, do I trust $100 billion company that has very stated cancellation policies?

    00:34:12:01 - 00:34:18:21

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    Josh Hatter

    Or do I trust this little tiny company in Charleston, South Carolina, to service fee properly?

    00:34:18:23 - 00:34:35:08

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah, yeah. It's tough. It's tough. You know, I've read recently, you know, we used to think of the customer journey as a

    funnel. Now it's kind of more like this infinite loop of research and competitor research and checking out your photos

    and your Instagram and all over the place, and then finally deciding to make that booking.

    00:34:35:10 - 00:34:36:09

    Josh Hatter

    And totally.

    00:34:36:14 - 00:34:55:08

    Jamie Mattingly

    You have a slight shot there. I tend to encourage my, clients to focus on their website and the messaging that they can

    get right up top to make it clear to not violate those OTAs. For you, with that $800, you know, incentive that's so juicy.

    But it's not the one that you can probably highlight up top, right.

    00:34:55:08 - 00:35:18:04

    Jamie Mattingly

    So you can focus on your you know, I love that, as you had mentioned, the options for these gross, you know, groceries

    can be set up. Or if you want to have these partnerships and these amazing experiences, you know, you can highlight

    those on your website. And that's that's usually what I write my guests to do that for my clients to do, to really try to win

    them over in that two seconds that you get from that, customer.

    00:35:18:05 - 00:35:19:14

    Josh Hatter

    Totally.

    00:35:20:10 - 00:35:41:00

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah, that's that's interesting. So, lastly, what I want to talk to you about is, is kind of like back to where we began and

    talking about the success that you've had in scaling this company. This is not an easy industry to scale in, and especially

    at the rate that you have done it. And, when I mentioned that I was going to ask you this, you said, how much time do

    you have?

    00:35:42:02 - 00:36:01:07

    Jamie Mattingly

    We don't have all day. What are some of the biggest hurdles that you faced as you grew? Obviously we know 2020 was

    awful. But, you know, a lot of our listeners will want to do what you've done. You know, what can they expect to face?

    00:36:01:09 - 00:36:23:01

    Josh Hatter

    Well, I guess, like, first of all, I'd say there's probably a lot easier ways to make money at scale. But yeah, I mean, it's,

    there's so many entrepreneurship changes. Your definition of failure. Right. The education system is set up with these

    grades, and so if you fail, there's no, like, Leah, you learned something, so you can do it better the next time where that's

    not how it works.

    00:36:23:01 - 00:36:40:13

    Josh Hatter

    And entrepreneurship failure is just literally part of the process. We don't think that we have the perfect answer when we

    roll out something that we're trying. My thought is if I can get it like 65 to 70% right, the market's going to tell me how

    to get to 90 or 95, and it's never going to be 100% perfect.

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:36:41:00 - 00:37:05:23

    Josh Hatter

    And nothing good lasts forever, and nothing bad lasts forever either, because you have all these trend trends and

    changes. I definitely, you know, we talk about this a little bit beforehand. I definitely waited way too long to hire. We

    have not taken any outside capital to grow. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, it just changes how you think

    about scale because you're balancing scale with cash flow.

    00:37:05:23 - 00:37:29:16

    Josh Hatter

    Right? And so, I think, a lot of folks that are entrepreneurs that are starting small businesses, they, they will probably

    scale slower than their, than they should, which is what I did. You know, you're just trying to make it work. You're

    trying to, you know, create a living for yourself. And a lot of entrepreneurs only get to where all they've done is create a

    job for themselves.

    00:37:29:20 - 00:37:49:07

    Josh Hatter

    You know, there's no actual financial freedom because there's no real scale. They just get to the point where they're

    maybe they're replacing their, income, their W-2 income from working for somebody else. So, yeah, it's I think that

    piece, the sooner you can get that down. In hindsight, we went through a lot of the wrong people.

    00:37:49:07 - 00:38:12:13

    Josh Hatter

    I do think, hire this is very well known, but it's very hard to follow. Hire slowly, fire quickly. You know, when you're

    doing everything yourself. And a lot of times you get to where it's like, I just really need this, and then you interview

    someone. It's like, this is like a 20% success rate, probably. And then, you know, you're right.

    00:38:12:13 - 00:38:40:11

    Josh Hatter

    And, you know, a week later you're like, oh, this is more work than I was doing a week ago. Our hiring process now and

    mean we use predictive index. We, we've partnered with better talent. Steve over at Better Talent is amazing. You

    know, easily the largest technology recruiting platform specifically for short term rentals, although they have expanded

    beyond that now, but they actually create profiles for every single main job.

    00:38:40:11 - 00:39:03:17

    Josh Hatter

    Right. And so when you look at scale that you're going to have inspectors or client success managers or revenue

    managers or directors of operations general managers, housekeepers, house person, like their standard jobs within this

    industry, just like any industry. And so what they've done is look at this index of how likely is someone to be successful

    in this job.

    00:39:03:17 - 00:39:21:06

    Josh Hatter

    And it's two questions and takes less than ten minutes. And so now for every candidate we're looking at what their

    predictive index is versus what their role is expected to be. So if you're a guest services VA and you need you know, oh

    I've got to be doing something different every day. Probably not the job for you. Right.

    00:39:21:06 - 00:39:43:19

    Josh Hatter

    Like it's people ask the same 20 questions over and over again. Our frequently asked questions are very well built out at

    this point. Right. So, now the maintenance person, you want that guy to enjoy new jobs, there's always something

    breaking and you know, the time frame. They may be a crunch in different places or like, oh, I've got to have a

    constructive MacGyver solution here.

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    00:39:43:19 - 00:40:06:00

    Josh Hatter

    So, you know, looking at those for that predictive index, I think has really helped us get more people right over the last,

    you know, several months, but even year. And then we also now have, I mean, ChatGPT, if you're not using this, like,

    you're doing it wrong in any industry, I think. But, just the ability to go through candidates and look at, like, strengths

    and weaknesses.

    00:40:06:00 - 00:40:25:00

    Josh Hatter

    Here's our job description and compare, you know, that to that. And really be able to rank people also can kind of take

    some of the bias, the inherent human bias that comes with looking at somebody. You're talking to somebody. And that

    has really helped us as well to as far as hiring and then obviously like the benefits as well.

    00:40:25:00 - 00:40:46:20

    Josh Hatter

    Right? So, you know, you can't afford to do that kind of stuff when you're coming out of the gate. But hiring is, is huge.

    Like it's the biggest thing with scale. The reality on the sales front, our biggest market in downtown Charleston, we have

    a ton of referrals now. You know, we we actually turn a lot of people away at this point because we know the client, the

    type of client we want to work with.

    00:40:47:07 - 00:41:03:12

    Josh Hatter

    And if it doesn't match that, then then, you know, we're we have the luxury of saying no. So, you know, when you go

    into a new market, you're kind of building that reputation before you're getting the sales referrals, which, you know, you

    want the sales piece for the growth, and then also the ability to service those reservations.

    00:41:03:14 - 00:41:27:10

    Josh Hatter

    And the human aspect of servicing the reservations, I think, is the hardest thing to do at scale in hospitality, you know,

    implementing standards, but then maintaining them and enforcing that accountability. I think it's something that that

    very few companies get right. Do you see like Ritz Carlton? Four seasons. Right. Companies that have done this very

    well at scale across the world.

    00:41:27:24 - 00:41:38:08

    Josh Hatter

    But in this industry specifically, I think it's very difficult for, for companies to get it right, especially as they're

    exploding on the growth side.

    00:41:38:10 - 00:41:47:17

    Jamie Mattingly

    Yeah. So I mean, my follow up was going to be if you had one piece of advice for somebody, trying to do what you do,

    it sounds like it's higher, right? I, I look.

    00:41:47:19 - 00:41:49:07

    Josh Hatter

    Higher slowly, higher, slowly.

    00:41:49:08 - 00:42:02:14

    Jamie Mattingly

    Lower higher. Quick, build that team and then build the culture. Yes, but the team wants to work for you. Incentivize.

    So really, it starts at home when you're saying, is that the team that you build?

    00:42:02:16 - 00:42:25:24

    Josh Hatter

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    Totally. Yeah. It's I so I have, an employee that's coming up on her three year anniversary and the, the gross, like, just

    not just like, personality and capability. But I mean, like, we've how we measure things and the accountability on those

    metrics has just drastically changed. And seeing somebody, you know, progress and and reach that level of potential is

    just so cool.

    00:42:26:08 - 00:42:47:13

    Josh Hatter

    And not only that, but the the loyalty. Right. Like when someone's like, this is the best job I've ever had. That's that

    means something. Yeah, that means something to me. Exactly. Like, that's that's part of the. If you do the right things as

    an entrepreneur, the money piece takes care of itself. It's hard when you're starting, especially when you don't have

    outside capital because you need money to live.

    00:42:47:15 - 00:43:04:10

    Josh Hatter

    Right? This this, it's a fairy tale. It it's, you know, as an adult, we got to do the adulting the hard way. So it's, it's

    interesting now to have somebody that's been here this long and be able to say, you should be more of a vocal leader,

    you know, talk about the things that you did three years ago.

    00:43:04:10 - 00:43:29:24

    Josh Hatter

    I mean, we were just running around with our hair on fire all day, every day, right. And and looking at the systems,

    processes and technology that we've put in place over the last year or two has just totally transformed people's day to

    day jobs. And that person, once you get that loyalty because you've developed this, this culture and you've hired right

    early that person's impact on other people, you know, they're only going to hear me so much when I say it, right.

    00:43:29:24 - 00:43:41:12

    Josh Hatter

    But if you can hear like, well, yeah, I've been here for a little while and, you know, here's here's how it used to be, if you

    if you think that's hard, try doing this. Yeah. You know. And how do you like to get this right?

    00:43:41:14 - 00:43:48:24

    Jamie Mattingly

    It's always better than. Yes. Tell totally how great you are rather than, you know, absolutely going to tell a future 100%.

    Right.

    00:43:48:24 - 00:44:01:07

    Josh Hatter

    They are 100%. Yeah, 100%. Obviously I'm biased. I got to say, it's a great company, and I'd like to think I have a great

    boss. But yeah, it doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, I need other people talking about it. Yeah.

    00:44:01:09 - 00:44:22:20

    Jamie Mattingly

    Well, from what I can tell from this conversation, you sound like a fantastic boss. If I ever quit my. I mean, I'm

    applying. I'm. I'm sending my application over to you. Thanks. Thanks for meeting with me today. I go into on just, like,

    a really light hearted note because in this industry, there are, as you've said, not everyone is a great guest.

    00:44:23:01 - 00:44:34:14

    Jamie Mattingly

    But sometimes there's wild and crazy things that happen at, vacation rentals or hotels. So do you have like a funniest or

    craziest or unexpected thing that's happened at one of your properties?

    00:44:34:16 - 00:44:58:01

    Josh Hatter

    I mean, I don't think there's anybody that's been in this business for the length of time I've been in it that doesn't have

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    crazy stories. But, yeah, I read you asked, so I'm going to say it, but, yeah, the first bed and breakfast we bought April

    7th of 2020. Certain days just stick with me. But April 7th of 2022 and before we did the renovation, you put $1 million

    into a property.

    00:44:58:01 - 00:45:21:19

    Josh Hatter

    You're probably increasing the standard just by doing that. Right. And so there's a different guest demographic that we

    were servicing. We started to service the property. We managed it for six months before shutting it down for

    renovations for six months. And we had this one guy, he was texting and he's like, hey, the toilet's clogged. And he'd

    been there three days already by that point, right?

    00:45:21:19 - 00:45:44:24

    Josh Hatter

    So you clogged it. So, but he's like, hey, the toilets clogged. You know, what do I do? And so it was like, what did you

    try unclogging it like there's there's a plunger there, right? Like, this is one of the things you learn in short term rentals.

    Key plungers in your restrooms. And, and he goes, well, I didn't come on my vacation to play plumber.

    00:45:45:01 - 00:46:06:18

    Josh Hatter

    And he sends a picture of the toilet and it's covered. The turd is covered by a washcloth. That was his solution or, his

    problem. And where was of like, I don't know, maybe it was. He thought I was covering out the smell. But, you know,

    obviously that washcloth is going in the trash, but, you know, we're we're kind of joking on our side.

    00:46:06:18 - 00:46:36:15

    Josh Hatter

    He comes back five minutes later and goes, nevermind. I broke up the turd. It flushed. It's fine. And so like this, it's if

    the average person is reasonably stupid and you're hosting 25,000 people, you're gonna get some of that. Let's say like

    the damage that like that we've seen. It's just like most of the time people are willing to pay for stuff if they do

    something as well to like.

    00:46:36:15 - 00:47:03:02

    Josh Hatter

    That's part of the inherent belief that mankind is still, you know, it's it's still a good thing overall. But, but yeah, there's

    there's so many stories like that. I will say one more thing to, I it means so much to me to be able to have these

    conversations that, you know, one of the things that I looked at is you have these, like, YouTube videos and Instagram

    Reels of like, oh, here's what I did.

    00:47:03:07 - 00:47:24:12

    Josh Hatter

    And that person had done it one time or two times on a single property or two, and they did it in 21, 22. And like the

    best couple years of rates, right? You could charge anybody anything coming out of Covid and they would pay it to to

    go back on vacation. And now those rates have normalized. And so a lot of times you see those people are selling

    courses, selling masterminds.

    00:47:24:12 - 00:47:52:20

    Josh Hatter

    And so I actually set up a mastermind called Keys Collective. And we set it up as a nonprofit. I could care less if it

    makes money. That's not I'm doing this at scale, you know, and have some big plans for the businesses that I have

    going. But I actually started this informally about two years ago with a group, and I just put an email out, a post out on

    LinkedIn and said, hey, if you want to learn this asset class, I'm willing to teach you.

    00:47:52:21 - 00:48:12:10

    Josh Hatter

    So I was I was talking to folks. I would kind of screen them to make sure that they were already in the asset class. And

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    basically the, the, the pitch there was, hey, I'm willing to give you anything that I've created. Just don't steal my clients.

    And so we did that informally for about nine months, and then we finally said, hey, what if we do this like like this is

    this is really fun.

    00:48:12:10 - 00:48:33:10

    Josh Hatter

    We appreciate it. Like, we enjoy each other's company. We still do the calls, you know, as a group every other week.

    And so, just recently we, we set up keys collective.org. And if people want to learn the asset class, there's an application

    process to go through on there. But one of the big things that you said something early like, oh, most people want to do

    it at scale.

    00:48:33:12 - 00:49:04:06

    Josh Hatter

    I would I would actually disagree a little bit, because I think a lot of people just want to create some kind of financial

    stability or independence outside of their W-2 job. They don't necessarily want to sell a company for $100 million. And

    so I think people coming in the door, we have, a big series of questions and exercises to help people hone in on what do

    you really want, not just financially, but friends, family, you know, and your finances, but also like fitness, like, you

    know what?

    00:49:04:10 - 00:49:28:00

    Josh Hatter

    What are the different areas of your life, that matter to you to help them define what their vision of success looks like

    and then help them work towards that. The other piece of this is when I when I stood this up, I said, what is the list of

    things that I would really want to have known instead of failing along the way and then I reached out to those people to

    have them join this nonprofit as mentors.

    00:49:28:00 - 00:49:46:22

    Josh Hatter

    And so, that's the one thing that I would I kind of leave your audience with. That's really important to me. Like I said,

    that's a terrible background. If I could do this, anybody can do it. There's this asset classes changed my life, and if I

    could do that for other people, then I would love to do that over the next ten years.

    00:49:46:24 - 00:49:56:05

    Jamie Mattingly

    That is incredible. I, I'm going to add all that information into the show notes. I would love for you to repeat that

    website one more time.

    00:49:56:07 - 00:50:02:05

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah, it's it's keys collective.org. Org. Since we did sign up as a nonprofit.

    00:50:02:07 - 00:50:08:14

    Jamie Mattingly

    All right. And that's for. So any anyone who owns a vacation rental or wants to get into this space.

    00:50:08:16 - 00:50:30:11

    Josh Hatter

    Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, everything from, you know, one of my first guys sold his rental arbitrage business.

    Now he's buying hotels across the country. He's a mentor. Even we have we've got a guy, Dustin Abney, who is CEO,

    of course, or Toro and, Charleston. He's bought ten companies over the last three years using venture capital.

    00:50:30:11 - 00:50:51:12

    Josh Hatter

    So he's raised millions of dollars of venture capital to do the big scale thing, looking for the big private equity exit, and

    file:///D/Duval%20Street%20Media/Podcast/CVP%20Josh%20Hatter/Josh%20Hatter%20Podcast%20Transcription%203.txt[3/27/2025 9:03:32 AM]

    everything in between. Right. So, you know, 1031 experts, my, my fractional CFO that I have spent 18 years at four

    seasons before getting into short term rentals. And she's a mentor as well, too.

    00:50:51:12 - 00:51:11:01

    Josh Hatter

    So in terms of, you know, STR accounting, what are the things you should be looking for, how to set up your business

    property properly, financially? All those types of things. We, we really try to be deliberate about, how do we create the

    blueprint for success for people in this asset class going forward?

    00:51:11:03 - 00:51:38:17

    Jamie Mattingly

    Well, that is beautiful. Josh, you you know, it's like the American dream. Start small. I actually appreciate the struggle.

    You know, the little bit of a struggle figuring out on your own, being a jack of all trades and kind of learning every job

    within the business to then finally realizing, okay, I got to get this together. And, you know, that moment in

    entrepreneurism to me is one of the best, you know, because you know, you don't know what success is until you

    struggle, right?

    00:51:38:17 - 00:51:54:24

    Jamie Mattingly

    And totally. For people like you and I that figured all of this out on our own. No outside money, that bit of struggle I get

    to look back at and kind of like laugh. But I enjoy it, you know, like, yes. Yeah, I would have loved a little bit more

    money back then, but it's, I get to grow.

    00:51:54:24 - 00:52:18:22

    Jamie Mattingly

    And just as you said, you know, failure in, in entrepreneurship is not failure. That's a lesson. And yeah, I wish that more

    people could understand that. I think that, yes, I'll be a much it'd be a better world if we start looking at our failures as

    failures. These are lessons, you know, fall forward, as a family and the idea of, you know, you wishing that maybe you

    had this service back then.

    00:52:18:22 - 00:52:29:23

    Jamie Mattingly

    That's the exact reason I started this podcast, because when I got started in this, in the travel and tourism industry, I was

    looking for resources. And in today's market, with everybody trying to be a thought leader.

    00:52:30:00 - 00:52:30:11

    Josh Hatter

    Yes.

    00:52:30:11 - 00:52:38:17

    Jamie Mattingly

    And and you know, chat TV is kind of like amp this up. You get a lot of generic information that isn't totally actionable.

    Right. So one.

    00:52:38:17 - 00:52:39:08

    Josh Hatter

    Hundred percent.

    00:52:39:09 - 00:52:45:10

    Jamie Mattingly

    My goal was like, I rather speak to people who have done this, like you said, not one time who have done this.

    00:52:45:12 - 00:52:46:04

    Josh Hatter

    9:03:32 AM]

    Yes.

    00:52:46:04 - 00:53:07:02

    Jamie Mattingly

    Hear how they did it. What were their struggles? And just to be able to provide a little bit of value and pay back an

    industry that has done so much for me. So I totally thank you enough for for coming here, giving me your time today,

    sharing your story about CVP and Key Collective, which, being from the Florida Keys, I when I saw that on your site, I

    was like, oh, what's this?

    00:53:07:02 - 00:53:11:04

    Jamie Mattingly

    Because I selected but it's a, it's a different kind of nonprofit.

    00:53:11:04 - 00:53:12:02

    Josh Hatter

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    00:53:13:18 - 00:53:26:00

    Jamie Mattingly

    But again, I want to thank you so much. Before we head off, can you let our listeners know where they can get in touch

    with you? Or if they're looking for a state in any of the areas that you're, how can they get in touch with you, or how can

    they find one of your rentals?

    00:53:26:02 - 00:53:50:07

    Josh Hatter

    Sure. Yeah. My my website is Josh haddad.com. So, you know, just like it's, it's spelled in my name here in the corner.

    And I actually have a calendly link on there. I've locked it down a little bit since I first waited available. But, I actually

    really enjoy, you know, that initial conversation with somebody and you could tell really quickly how far they are in

    their own thought process of what they really want to do.

    00:53:51:05 - 00:54:16:04

    Josh Hatter

    And so, you know, that that's actually a way to get in touch with me directly. Also, you know, I'm on every social media

    platform as well too. So people can reach out there in terms of booking for KVP, our addresses are URL is stay

    staycvp.com. We're actually going through a major website overhaul now. Both website front end and booking engine back

    end, to launch in the next ten days.

    00:54:16:04 - 00:54:34:15

    Josh Hatter

    So if you go there now, there's, there's, we'll be back soon. And then there's a link for our properties to still be able to

    book directly. But all of that will change. And get a massive facelift here in the next ten days as well, too. But I'd love to

    have the conversations. And if I can help people, I genuinely want to do that.

    00:54:34:17 - 00:54:44:22

    Jamie Mattingly

    Awesome. Well, maybe we'll have to have you on again down the line to talk about the effect that the new website has

    had on your direct bookings and all of these little tactics that we can do to increase that revenue. So,

    00:54:44:24 - 00:54:45:08

    Josh Hatter

    I love.

    00:54:45:08 - 00:54:47:13

    Jamie Mattingly

    It too, and I'm excited to see it.

    00:54:47:15 - 00:54:49:21

    Josh Hatter

    Thanks. Yeah, I would love that. Thank you.

    00:54:49:23 - 00:55:09:18

    Jamie Mattingly

    All right. Well, thanks again. Josh, to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. And until next time, have a great day.

Previous
Previous

Creating Once-in-a-Lifetime Travel Experiences with Margie Jordan of Jordan Executive Travel